| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
 JohnnyWeirRox |
|||
|
Senior Angel
Posts: 192 (12/13/08 4:12 PM) Senior Angel |
I'm with Stef. I love both of Johnny's programs right now, especially the LP. The emotions that I see in his face and body really move me, especially
the slow part in the middle. I do agree that a more established choreographer would be a good idea for next year, but his style should stay the same. The
biggest problem I have is just with the layout with the jumps, although I'm sure Johnny does it for a reason.
-Laura
Keeper of Johnny's "I'm going to Disneyland" comment
Keeper of Johnny's 2008 Nationals performance of "Love is War" |
||
|
Valensia1 |
|||
|
Junior Angel
Posts: 39 (12/13/08 4:30 PM) Junior Angel |
I'm with Stef too. Agree with pretty much everything Stef said.
The only other thing I would say is that I would like Johnny to do more " passionate, dynamic " classical music. Because behind Johnny's lyrical style, there is underlying current of power there, even in his soft movements. That's why Rondo may be my all time favorite of his. It shows his more dynamic side IMO Having said that, although this year's music choices may not be my favorite, his programs this year do fit with his style just fine, and do allow him to show his artistry. And I'm all for him showing all his true potential magic to the judges and to the audiences. |
||
|
suesue |
|||
|
Golden Angel
Posts: 934 (12/13/08 4:34 PM) Star Angel |
I can only speak for myself, but I don't think people are advocating Johnny change his style. That's certainly not what I meant at all. He can stay
with his beautiful, lyrical style and still have more interesting and COP point-gathering choreography along with dynamic music. Of course Johnny will never
change what he is on the ice. I can't imagine anyone thinking or wanting that .
|
||
|
psycho9966 |
|||
|
Junior Angel
Posts: 76 (12/13/08 4:48 PM) Junior Angel |
Sigh. I think some of your expectations are way too high. Let's look at the realistic facts.
Yes, he does not have the greatest choreography ever. But, maybe there is a reason for that. Maybe Johnny can't focus on both jumps and intricate choreography at the same time. There have been plenty examples in the past when skaters got harder choreography and their jumps imploded. Let's also not whitewash Jeffrey Buttle's career: yes, he had complex choreography, but he couldn't skate clean to save his life! Yes, he pulled it together at Worlds last year (and good for him!) but that was one time. He was never a consistent skater. And if you want to be a consistent skater, you need simpler choreography. Second issue: why do some people here think they know how much and how long Johnny needs to train better than the freaking Galina Zmievskaya who trained 2 Olympic champions?! They know what they are doing. Johnny does not look out of shape. He does not have the best speed of all skaters, but he is not unbearably slow either. In fact, he was way faster in the GPF than at NHK. And another point: Johnny was very sick at NHK, and he spend a week recovering from that. Wouldn't you lack some energy if you were still recovering from an illness? And last but not least, let's have some perspective, people! LOL Look at Lysacek, Joubert, Verner etc. Try to imagine how their fans feel! LOL Johnny medalled at every event he entered this year, despite sickness, blade issues and whatever else is going on in that pretty head of his. The only one else to do that was Kozuka. Hat's off to him as well. Yes Jeremy won GPF, and good for him, but jeez, he had no pressure and no expectations on him whatsoever! He was completely ignored by the US media. He hasn't really been tested by the pressure cooker the way Johnny and even Evan have been. Why everyone thinks that he will be just as good when the pressure is on, is beyond me. Let's wait and see, first.
Last Edited By: psycho9966
12/13/08 4:52 PM.
Edited 2 times.
|
||
|
Mercurycool |
|||
|
Senior Angel
Posts: 202 (12/13/08 5:09 PM) Senior Angel |
About his nerve and attitude, I'm not a skater and have never experienced in Johnny's situation, but I suppose it's not so easy
to make successful mind set every competition. And that's why many skaters have been struggling for it every event , and repeating inconsistency ,
depending on the situation. I don't blame Johnny for that.
I think it's not a bad idea to think " he wants to show great performance to great Korean audience ". for his mind set and as a result, if he could enjoy connecting with audience and successfully nails it , it might get good result as well. And too much thinking about win or gold medal often makes skaters more pressure and nerve, too. Reading about
Plushenko and Shizuka Arakawa's comments when they successfully got good results, they said the similar things if my memory is correct. Both ways can get nerve and pressure.
Also I agree with psycho9966, whole post. |
||
|
NorthernSnail |
|||
|
Golden Angel
Posts: 2946 (12/13/08 5:40 PM) Golden Angel |
Mercurycool wrote:I second that, and third the statements. 
I wouldn't say Johnny's programs are particularly good or bad this season, but it's striking that the choreography lacks transitions and that the jump layout is rather ... uninspired? At the same time I'm not sure a program that's built like Jeremy's would work for Johnny at all because it might just be too packed. If he can pull off all those 3As and combinations in the second half, I'm all for it , but if he needs to get the big ones out
of the way first and needs to focus on the others more to get them done, then it's obvious why his programs are created the way they are. Johnny isn't
at the top of his game at the moment, but I'm happy he got his first medal there  - and he'll definitely try to improve.
And geez, I'm gone for half a day, and nobody posted a video yet?  I had to wait until I got home to see it on my Eurosport recording, but I'm going
to put some videos into the Video Sharing thread in just a second. For those who still haven't seen it.
 Janina.
|
||
|
pairsskater |
|||
|
Golden Angel
Posts: 829 (12/13/08 5:55 PM) Senior Angel |
I been out of this whole thing.....stuff going on at home and I simply cannot do the middle of the night thing, but this is what I think: In that interview
(after NHK) Johnny was asked "Do you have any regrets?" and this was his answer: "The biggest regret is any time when I haven't believed in
myself." That's what I thought when I watched him skate at GPF (and NHK). He's lacking confidence somehow. He doesn't need to skate well for
the Koreans or anyone else. He's got to do it for himself...and I agree with Sue. He needs more speed!
Joanne
...Keeper of Johnny's changing hairstyles |
||
|
pippa |
|||
|
Star Angel
Posts: 417 (12/13/08 6:06 PM) Newbie Angel |
Everyone here is a Johnny fan. We all love Johnny and his skating. But that doesn't mean we have to look at everything he does with rose-colored
glasses and can never express an opinion that isn't "Johnny is the best, he is perfect, he does everything right".
Pippa
|
||
|
sunshineskate |
|||
|
Junior Angel
Posts: 66 (12/13/08 6:07 PM) Junior Angel |
I have so many thoughts spinning through my head..I'm not sure where to begin....
|
||
|
MattysMom2005 |
|||
|
Star Angel
Posts: 691 (12/13/08 7:48 PM) Star Angel |
SkateFree1 wrote:Wow, where did that come from? What is your reasoning behind that? It seems almost as bad as saying if Evan would have been there Johnny would not have medalled. Figure skating is a sport and like any sport, most of the time other people do screw up and that is to your benefit. Like in football they say "on any given Sunday..." For example, if Kozuka would have completed all his jumps, Jeremy would not have won... Or, if Kozuka would not have had such a great SP score, he would not have gotten the silver medal. And then there is poor Tomas Verner who is the reigning European champion. And Patrick Chan who certainly did not have his best day. Who is to say Joubert would have been "on" - he has been inconsistent at best so far this year. This is Johnny's first GPF medal and I for one could not be happier for him or prouder of him. Plus he is the ONLY men's skater EVER to medal in ALL the current Grand Prix events. Not even Plushenko (there was no CoC when he competed.) Honestly, I'd just like to know why you say Johnny would not have a GPF medal if Joubert had skated. I know you are a big Johnny supporter but I think that statement is unfair. |
||
|
pippa |
|||
|
Star Angel
Posts: 418 (12/13/08 8:01 PM) Newbie Angel |
MattysMom2005 wrote:Cup of China began in 2004, but Plushenko did medal in all six of the GP events that existed when he was competing. There was a German GP called Bofrost Cup on Ice at that time, and he won gold there (in fact, he won gold at every GP except Skate America, where he was only invited to skate once and won the silver). Pippa
|
||
|
pairsskater |
|||
|
Golden Angel
Posts: 830 (12/13/08 8:16 PM) Senior Angel |
Yes, we are all Johnny's fans. We love him and support him no matter what. But is safe to say we have differing opinions about his skating, training,
attitude, goals, etc....and we voice them. We're free to do so. But Johnny's probably not going to change anything based on our opinions...I don't
think I'd want him to, anyway.
We support him and we have strong opinions about him. There's no reason those 2 things cannot coexist. And I don't believe someone who may be critical of Johnny's training or choices regarding his skating is being disloyal. Just reading Johnny's journal at times makes me wonder. When I think he's going to be unhappy..he puts a positive spin on things. When I think he should feel proud of himself, he's sometimes hard on himself. Anyway, I'm glad he got a medal but I know he can do better. I do not profess to know how he'll try to improve...but I'll support him all the way. 
Joanne
...Keeper of Johnny's changing hairstyles |
||
|
hummingbird2 |
Protocols | ||
|
Golden Angel
Posts: 4867 (12/13/08 9:35 PM) Archangel Administrator |
http://www.isuresults.com...9_SeniorMen_FS_Scores.pdf
Well, if I'm counting right, Johnny had 4 jump revolutions less than Jeremy. He will need them all at Nationals. After watching it again (British Eurosport version, thanks Janina for posting as usual), I still love the music and the expression and the program. But even more I could wish for some choreography between the jumps, different kids of entrances or something. But the speed did seem much better (forget what I said earlier regarding that issue). I still think the judges see those first four jumping passes with nothing else and immediately downgrade the PCS in their mind for transitions, choreography, performance. I love Johnny's skating so much, however, that it still feels to me like the program flashes by in less than an instant. Kristina 
PS. I'm off to bed; be nice to each other while you discuss! 
|
||
|
SkateFree1 |
|||
|
Senior Angel
Posts: 225 (12/13/08 10:51 PM) Senior Angel |
MattysMom2005 wrote:
Last Edited By: SkateFree1
12/14/08 12:09 AM.
Edited 3 times.
|
||
|
brigichan |
|||
|
Golden Angel
Posts: 1064 (12/14/08 1:04 AM) Star Angel |
psycho9966 wrote:Apparently, the results do not always support that. Despite Petrenko being a tech spec, we still couldn't see Johnny's PCS skyroketing due to all of the advices of the technical eye. |
||
|
sweetandevil |
|||
|
Senior Angel
Posts: 197 (12/14/08 3:18 AM) Senior Angel |
Free skating PCS have been weird for many skaters so far this season. Evan and Jeremy both got about 76-77 at first event and about 70 at second. Joubert's
been given lower PCS than usually at both events (Platov, anyone?), OTOH, Chan was scored ridiculously high for messy performances, especially at SC, so was
Oda at NHK. Kozuka was given his PCS personal best for his most messy skating at GPF. Verner messed up all his Free skates this season and got lower PCS only
at GPF, for CoC and CoR these were high.
As for Johnny. He got good PCS for his GP appearances and low PCS for GPF. I believe it is more on behalf of judging panel than of Johnny, Viktor and the program as it is. |
||
|
Charlini |
|||
|
Senior Angel
Posts: 176 (12/14/08 4:13 AM) Junior Angel |
SkateFree1 wrote:
Last Edited By: Charlini
12/14/08 4:17 AM.
Edited 1 times.
|
||
|
Mercurycool |
|||
|
Senior Angel
Posts: 203 (12/14/08 11:36 AM) Senior Angel |
sweetandevil wrote: I agree. PCS is not so trustful to me. Johnny received 76 in NHK with same choreography, Whether Johnny changed choreography or not, I suppose PCS may still go up or down depending on the event.
I may have different view about reality. My image of reality is Johnny won bronze, and Joubert withdrew because of his sore back and could not compete. That's the reality because that's what actually happened. If, would , could thinking is more of one's imagination based on the past results. And it's not true reality to me because that's not what actually happened. |
||
|
sckimer |
|||
|
Senior Angel
Posts: 350 (12/14/08 2:48 PM) Senior Angel |
Actually this is good healthy discussion, we can all be so happy for Johnny and his bronze GP Final medal and that is something he can be very proud of. But we
can also look at the judge sheets and analyze some what Johnny could have done better. For example, looking at the judging sheet it looks like Johnny doubled a
triple axel and also turn his third combo into a single jump .... if he had done both of those fine he probably would have gotten 10-12 more points and won the
silver. Overall Johnny's program is excellent and packed with all the right elements to be on the world's poduim this year if not win gold if he
executes all elements of his program very well. And again I look forward to US Nats - it will be so fun with Johnny, Jeremy and Evan. We can have 3-way drama
instead of 2-way.
|
||
|
pairsskater |
|||
|
Golden Angel
Posts: 834 (12/14/08 4:38 PM) Senior Angel |
Yes....perhaps Jeremy will take the "rivalry" thing in another direction. I think everyone could use a break from the Johnny vs. Evan show!
Joanne
...Keeper of Johnny's changing hairstyles |
||
But that's how the scores add up under the system. So if you look at this record and the elements Joubert had planned in his program -- quad
and all -- and compare those to Johnny's score ... I don't think it's "unfair" or unreasonable to say it was a lucky break for Johnny.
This doesn't mean Johnny didn't deserve his medal ... he did, fair and square. (In fact he was second in the short.)
But sadly artistry is not rewarded the way it should under the CoP. And I want Johnny to
win, not 
because that was one less possibility to worry about how Brian would
perform. Sure there was "a chance" Brian would place higher, but there was "a chance" he would not. Just like there was a chance that
Chan would place higher or Verner. If Kozuka would have made a couple more mistakes he would have placed lower than Johnny, and on and on. I guess the
difference of opinion here is how we preceive "the chances".
